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Descendants of Mangles Progenitor-288359

Fifth Generation


14. Mangles Robert-288324 (John , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1780. He died in 1861.

See htrtp;//72.14.235.132/ re Descendants of William Mangles. He is son1. Named in his father's Will. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007. See also, Alice M. Coats, Forgotten Gardeners, III: The Mangles Family, Garden History, Summer 1973, Vol. 1, No. 3, pp. 42-46. He is described as "a very large man with a very small voice".

Robert married MNotknown Selina-338867.

They had the following children:

  34 M i Mangles Robert-338868.

He is of Sunning Hills, Berks. His wife in an old Gentleman's Magazine item online. ux48 for more http by Peter Western. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
        Robert married Donnelly Charlotte-322517 daughter of Vice-Admiral of White Donnelly Ross-203725 and DNotknown Miss-203726 in 1824 in All Saints, Fulham Midx.

No extra notes.

18. Mangles Ann-288333 (John , Robert , William , Progenitor ).

Will seems to be dated 16 Feb. 1791 or 12 April 1795. Will proved before sjt at law George Harris Norton (?). Will mentions Grace Atkinson. Her own Will per Ann Sadler on 8-2-2005, PRO National Archives, Cat Ref: prob 11/204, Image Ref: 27. She and husband as named in her father's Will. E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

Ann married Gardiner Edward-288334 son of Gardiner Progenitor-288335 and GNotknown Miss-288336.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

Edward and Ann had the following children:

  35 F i Gardiner Amice-338869 was born in 1824.

19. Mangles Frances-288337 (John , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1792 in Hurley, Berkshire.

thepeerage.com. She and husband as named in her father's Will. E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

Frances married Hon, Captain RN Explorer Palestine Irby Charles Leonard-288338 son of Sir Baron2 Irby Irby Frederick-288339 and Methuen Christian Christiana-36584. Charles was born in 1789 in Boston, Lincoln England. He died in 1845.

See htrtp;//72.14.235.132/ re Descendants of William Mangles. thepeerage.com. He is Captain of HM Genoa, in 1827-1828 in the Mediterranean. Archaeologist in Palestine with his brother-in-law James Mangles.

Charles and Frances had the following children:

  36 F i Irby Frances Elizabeth-288340 died in 1921.

thepeerage.com.
        Frances married Rev Rice R. L. Howard-421849 son of Rice Progenitor-421850 and RNotknown Miss-421851.

thepeerage.com.
  37 M ii Irby John James Charles-37801 was born in 1830. He died in 1895.

thepeerage.com.
        John married Walpole Henrietta Elizabeth-421852 daughter of Rev Walpole Thomas-421853 and WNotknown Miss-421854.

She had nine children. thepeerage.com.

23. EICo Capt, UBA, Australian trade,MP, Mangles Charles Edward-11286 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1798. He was christened on 22 Feb 1798 in St John Hackney, Marylebone. He died on 28 Oct 1873.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. Or, of Ryde Park. He lives at Poyle Park, Surrey in http. IGI Internet entry arises. Broeze on Brooks, p. 80, this man on Board of Union Bank of Australia, a senior partner of Mangles, Price and Co. Note that Herries /Farquhar became UBA. His mother's name is not with the apparent baptism note. Marylebone Parish also. Broeze on Brooks, p. 314, Note 56 has a man Mangles as treasurer of the Australasian Church Missionary Society by 1838. Pemberton, London Connection, p. 421. Stenton, on Brit Parlts, which Vol. pp. 258-259, He is of Poyle Park, Farnham, Surrey, Oriental [Club?], he is a Capt in maritime service of EICo, a liberal, in favour of extending the suffrage and the ballot. Unsuccessfully contested Southampton in July, 1841. First elected for Newport, Retired in 1859. He is chairman of London and South-Eastern Railway, 1859-1872. See notes from Butlin, ANZ, p. 56 as he is early on board of UBA. Letter from Ian Berryman of WA in March 1996. IGI data available. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Charles married Per IGI Newcombe Rose-37489 daughter of Esq of Audit Office Newcombe George-37487 and NNotknown Miss-37488 in 1832. Rose was born in 1812 in Marylebone.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. Stenton on Brit Partls, Vol. ?, p. 258. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Charles and Rose had the following children:

  38 F i Mangles Rose-40891 was born in 1835 in Circa. She was christened on 19 Mar 1835 in St Marylebone,All Souls.

Dates etc by IGI. IGI Internet has Christen 19 Mar 1835 at St Marylebeone All Souls, CO53911. Dr of Charles Edward Mangles.
+ 39 M ii Mangles James Henry-140246 was born in 1832. He died in 1884.
+ 40 M iii Clerk, India Office Mangles Frank-302954 was born in 1839/1840.
  41 M iv Bengal Civil Service Mangles Henry Albert-288344 was born in 1833. He died in 1908.
  42 F v Mangles Hamilla Catherine-142708 was born in 1837. She died in 1838.
  43 M vi Mangles Frank-33869.
  44 M vii Major-General Indian Civil Service Mangles Cecil-171710 was born in 1842. He died in 1906.
        Cecil married Mahoney Frances Anne-303100 daughter of Mahoney Progenitor-303101 and MNotknown Miss-303102. Frances was born in 1851 in Ireland. She died in 1931.

netsurf here.
  45 F viii Mangles Harriet Newcombe-11842 was born in 1840/1842.

From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
        Harriet married Le Grice Frank Swaine-338879 son of Le Grice Progenitor-338880 and LNotknown Miss-338881 in 1865.

netsurf here.
  46 F ix Mangles Emily-303097 was born in 1845 in Seale, Surrey.
  47 F x Mangles Clara-303098 was born in 1846. She died in 1931.
+ 48 F xi Mangles Agnes-303099 was born in 1850.

24. Of Woodbridge, Surrey Mangles Ellen-11843 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1807 in Circa. She was christened in 1823. She died in 1874.

http mysouthernfamily/ Code-red. http update. She is dr3. She is only sixteen when she marries Stirling. She offers her own money to help failing Stirling businesses. Hasluck, Thos. Peel, p. 18. She has five sons and six drs. ADB for her husband. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Ellen married Sir, Gov WA Stirling James-77297 son of Of Drumpellier Lanarkshire, Scotland Stirling Andrew-77295 and Stirling Anne-77296 on 3 Sep 1823. James was born in 1791 in Scotland. He was christened in 1840. He died in 1865.

recheck re "vice-regal notes". E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. In England he has chief carpenter-builder, Henry Trigg. He is son5. Code-Aust. Code-red. on Stirling clan history, see http:// www.clanstirling.org/Main/bios/news.html - The background of James Stirling is not easy to find in Clan Sturling history, but Alfred Stirling's book is useful with the following ... Alfred Stirling, Gang Forward: A Stirling Note-Book. Melbourne, The Hawthorn Press, 1972. The father of a fifth son, James the WA governor was Andrew of Drumpellier, no other information. (here are notes from Andrew - (There is a problem when one William Stirling bankrupts (?). Wife Mangles is only sixteen when she marries Stirling. She offers her own money to help failing Stirling businesses. Hasluck, Thos. Peel, p. 18. She has five sons and six drs. ADB for her husband. See family in Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 11ff. ADB for his son. Alfred Stirling's book on Stirlings, p. 96, says this man has five sons. James of WA is son5.) Information is more acceptable for James' mother Ann, urnamed Stirling, of the Stirlings of Cadder, from the original stock of Cawder Stirlings. Preceding Ann's father had been six-seven generations of Glasgow merchants with this branch of the Stirling family. On of the early merchants was a Provost of Glasgow in 1736, in 1736, John, (1677-1736), whose father remains unknown. This Provost John married Isabella Hunter (1680-1733), daughter of John Hunter. Provost John had a brother Dr William Stirling, and a brother Walter, the father of Capt Walter Stirling RN (died 1786) the father of Ann. And so James's maternal grandfather had died not long before the First Fleet sailed for Botany Bay. It does tend to be recorded, however, that James' mother Ann had a brother Charles, who married Charlotte Grote, daughter of Andreas Grote, He is a contintenal banker who settled in London. On his dr see Alfred Stirlings book on Stirling, p. 96. Andreas Grote had nine children by wife2. Andreas was father of the banker George Grote Snr. (notes for him - Family is of Beckenham in Kent. He is banker from 1766 with George Prescott in bank, Grote, Prescott and Co, of Threadneedle St. He has eleven children, his son George Jnr (the readical) DNB entry. - ends those notes and grandfather of the radical banker, historian and promoter of colonisation to Australia, George Grote (1794-1871). Notes for Grote dies 1871 - (Noted in book on Rowland Hill qv. His wife's DNB entry. His wife is dr of man in Madras Civil Service. His own DNB entry. Born Clay Hill near Beckenham, Kent. He is oldest of eleven children. He is DCL, LLD, author as historian of Greece. Does he live around Bromley? There is a George Grote senior in notes for GW Norman qv. By the early 1830s is linked with Gouger of National Colonisation soc, Pike, Dissent, pp. 64-65.) Now here are notes from GW Norman. (His marriage in Clay p. 6 "brings his children into one of the oldest of English banker families and two of them in partnership in oldest of the Clearing Banks". He is friend and neighbour (at Bromley) of bankers as Hankey, Grote, Jones Loyd (sic), Hay Cameron, Lubbock, Stone, Martin, and later Mark Collett, and one of his own brothers is a partner first in Bouverie's and then in Jones, Loyd and Co. He is an original member of the Political Economy Club, agreed with exploring some of Ricardo's views. He is neighbour of Charles Darwin. He is neighbour and intimate friend of George Grote as in Pike, Dissent, see Clay book p. 4. He is elected to Dir BofE in 1821. He went early to Norway and made friends here. School at Eton. Cf., Sir Henry Clay, Lord Norman, London, Macmillan, 1957., from p. 3 Burke's LG for Lubbock formerly Bonham Carter of Adhurst St Mary. Lecouteur 1825 AACo listings. See, Autobiography of George Wade Norman, Completed September 3, 1857, Kent County Archives Office, Microfilm, U310-F69 [indexed by the writer]. See his upcoming notes from his autobiog, Merchant 23 Earl-street, Blackfriars, by 1815. Kynaston, City of London, p. 29.

He became an EICo director at early age of 27, recommended by Manning the father of the Cardinal Manning, on recommendation of George Grote Snr. He retired early from business. He is son of a timber merchant. See Kynaston, City of London, p. 29, p. 84. AA says he had a long tree for this man, just can't find it. fix backcheck from my post-London jnl notes. See Pemberton, AACo, p. 86 or so. James Macarthur was introduced to this man a director of the Bank of England, and an original director of AACo, by one Thomas Hobbes Scott. this man has two sons bankers. Y. Cassis, on bankers, p. 215. Pemberton thesis, lists of AACo investors.) (here for notes on Gouger re Grote connections His Aust Enyc entry says he is co-founder of SA. See Iseke email re Leckie and Co in India by 1837 or earlier, possible opium traders. aa batch in late 1840s, for SA's external trade and Montefiore, see Pike, Dissent, p. 340. From 1840, see Pike, Dissent, p. 214, the directors of the South Australian
Banking Company were G. F. Angas, George Davenport qv, Henry Kingscote, J. R. Mills, John Pirie, John Rundle, C. Dawson, J. R. Todd, J. H. Leckie, John Wheelton, J. Fussell. Re London Bank, Smith, Payne, Smiths, possible link, who is an SA Co. man Thomas Smith see Pike, Dissent, p. 121. He becomes mentally ill by 1844 and resigned positions re SA. In 1831, Robert forms Robert Gouger and Co to assist poor labourers to Aust and Canada and then an establishment at 148 Leadenhall St for outfits to East India army agents and arranging passages to and from India and the colonies. He has a brother Henry who gives some financial support to Robert's activities. his wife has one child, mother and child die when they arrive at SA. Pike, Dissent, p. 99, he is second youngest in family of eleven children, has a brother in India or in eastern trade, of Huguenot stock, schooled at Nottingham, meets socialist Robert Owen, in 1829 he is attracted by ideas of Swan River colony, hopes to work for T. P. Macqueen, but after meeting Wakefield, decided on WA and convinced Macqueen that Chinese coolies are a good idea for SA. He is a Republican. Is he the one sec of National Colonization Society? His own ADB entry. he once visited Wakefield in Newgate.

From Sydney Gazette, 4 December, 1830, List of members of the National Colonization Society meeting at 21 Regent Street London on 18 June, 1830: Chair is RW Horton, In Pike, Dissent, p. 66-67, on 16 Jan 1834, SA promoters and others issue South Australian Church Society, Bishop Blomfield of London is pres and committee includes "such prominent churchmen" as Raikes Currie, Pascoe St Leger Grenfell and John Labouchere. Pike, Dissent, p. 60, once Bacon misuses his govt contacts (gotten rid of by R. W. Hay qv), promoters of National Colonisation Society take new offices at 8 Regent St and issue a prospectus for South Australian Land Company. Torrens then interviewed Hay, ideas like an earlier proposal of August, another prospectus arose in May 1832, the Company has 23 members with 12 of them MPs, and the chairman is W. W. Whitmore. Amazing, Pike, p. 61, officials respond by producing ideas as sent to superintendent of Honduras by Gov of Jamaica in 1775 (ie, the George Moore debacle) for comparison; and this goes for discussion by July 9 to Colonial Office. Pike, Dissent, p. 63, the colonisation promoters say that colonists have amassed 200,000 or more and in disgust would go to Canada. Anthony Bacon still lurked in the background, wanted to be governor of SA, with Gouger as col-sec, get up ship Nereid as ordered by Bacon, with its captain, Capt. Sutherland who would have reward of being harbour master. Bacon began wildly borrowing, failed, went off to become a general in Portugal, and Wakefield went off to France. Wakefield wrote on failures in a book of 1833, England and America, then went to continent with his invalid dr. The Assoc set up rooms at the Adelphi, Whitmore stayed as chairman but did little, treasurer is Grote, and supporters were bankers, merchants, philosophical radicals such as Grote, who is a banker, see Pike, Dissent, pp. 64-65. Pike, Dissent, p. 56, on 13 Feb 1831, the private sec to King Wm IV, Sir Herbert Taylor, who has a friend, Major Anthony Bacon, who after Sturt's discoveries wants to found a Spencer's Gulf colony. Hay at Colonial Office does not like idea. Bacon ends in seeing Gouger, whom he meets in jail with Gouger, King's Bench Prison. Jan 1831 (Pike, Dissent p. 55), there is Robert Gouger and Co. which distributes a pamphlet, idea for a benevolent society to assist pauper children to emigrate. See Pike, Dissent, pp. 52-53. Jan 1829 is when Gouger meets Wakefield, as Gouger is anxious on ideas of settling at Swan River, as Wakefield is in Newgate. Idea to concentrate land settlement instead of being prodigal as with Swan River to date. Gouger is, Pike says, p. 53, "efficient, single-minded" and devoted. Gouger for a publication, Pike p. 53, is put as debtor into Kings Bench prison, where he meets a Capt Dixon who claims to have sailed coasts of Southern Australia. Once out of jail, Gouger distributes his "Letter" to peoople connected by trade or property to NSW and VDL. Similar names in colonisation are found in Douglas Pike, Paradise of Dissent, in forming of South Australian colony. Meeting of National Colonization Society at 21 Regent Street, 18 June, 1830, reported in Sydney Gazette of 4 December 1830. chairman is R. W. Horton, MP seeall given below . Committee to consist of him plus Robert Gouger see qv, secretary, W. S. O'Brien MP, Thomas Potter Macqueen MP, William Smith MP of Smiths Payne Smiths probably, C Buller MP, JC Hobhouse MP, Colonel Talbot MP, T. Kavanagh MP, Rev E. T. Sampson (is he of the Blackheath family?), Colonel Torrens, Rev. J. Styles DD, Rev. F. A. Cox LLD, John Labouchere Esq (possible links to Barings or Hopes and Co), R. H. Innes Esq, Robert Owen (socialist), John William Buckle (convict contractor, trader), J. Stirling (of Swan River?), J. Talbot Esq, H. Elphinstone Esq, William Hutt Esq, Clayton Brown Esq, C. Tennant Esq, Robert Scott Esq. Donations go to banks Smiths Payne and Smiths, Drummonds, Hammersley and Co, Cockburn and Co. Pike in Dissent p. 54 finds also a member is John Sterling, who agrees with Hutt. Pike in Dissent, pp. 84ff, has list of members of National Colonisation Society of 1835 as: (interested are William Alexander Mackinnon, wealthy Tory MP, who has a son in far eastern shipping before founding Imperial British East Africa Co., Capt Wm Gowan with 15 years India service, Richard Norman son of a man in Norway timber and brother of a director of Bank of England, Samuel Mills a retired financier, Richard Heathfield later in railways, George Fife Angas, (qv a Baptist merchant and shipowner). E. Barnard (liberal, and an investor in AACo ), J. E. Bicheno, (son of a Dissenting minister and later colonial secretary in VDL) (sic), C. Holte, (eccentric banker Henry Drummond is involved) Bracebridge, Clayton Brown, John William Buckle (qv and an exception amongst mostly philanthropists, uncle of the historian Buckle, AACo investor and SA promoter), Charles Buller, Sir Francis Burdett (dilettante radical), Rev F. A. Cox, Howard Elphinstone, John Gibson, John Gore, Hon Sec Robert Gouger, Arthur Gregory, Woronzow Grieg, Richard Heathfield, Sir John Hobhouse (dilettante radical), R. W. Horton, Erksine Humprheys, John Hutt, William Hutt, R. H. Innes, Edward King, T. Kavanagh, John Labouchere, Thomas Potter Macqueen (AACo investor and SA promoter), Lawrence Marshall, Charles Merivale, John Stuart Mill, Lucius O'Brien, William Smith O'Brien, Sir Henry Parnell, R. S. Rintoul, Rev G. V. Sampson, Robert Scott, John Abel Smith, James Spedding, John Sterling, Rev Dr Styles, Sir Philip Sydney, Colonel Talbot, Charles Tennant, Charles Tennyson, J. H. Thomas, Colonel Torrens (on life of Torrens see Pike, Dissent, pp. 92ff, FRS, he is capitalist with England as workshop of the world, see his son in SA), E. S. Tucker, R. Trench, Hyde Villiers, John Young. A non-MP member is Edward King (later Visc Kingsborough and an antiquarian who recommended Mexico be colonised by Israelites), T. Kavanagh (an Irishman who with Wm Smith O'Brien spent years exploring Egypt), R. S. Rintoul (editor of The Spectator). Members not on the committee included John Simeon Hare (classics scholar), James Spedding, Charles Merivale, Visc Howick, Charles Tennyson, William Hutt (fresh from Cambridge and later MP, friends of colliery owners by wife's connections and has his own shipping interests) and John Hutt, Charles Buller, John Sterling (he is for the Spanish patriots then in London), Charles Tennant, Stephen Spring Rice, W. S. O'Brien, John Romilly, Sir William Molesworth and Edward Strutt. Other SA promoters who were shareholders in AACo were J. W. Buckle, Thomas Potter Macqueen, G. W. Norman (AACo investor and SA promoter), Hyde Villiers, John Smith (banker AACo investor and SA promoter) and John Melville (retired India merchant). Pike, Dissent, p. 87 has 1832 list of members of South Australian Association, as: Major Aubrey Beauclerk (Benthamite), Rev Abraham Borradaile (reformer Anglican clergyman, assists poor, finally suicides in Thames with brothers as merchants at Cape Good Hope and London, members the wealthy Borradaile clan), Charles Buller (born in India in 1806, Benthamite), J. L. Childers (liberal whig, reforming land owner and financier), William Clay (wealthy Port of London merchant), Raikes Currie (radical, banker, gambler), Capt William Gowan, George Grote, Benjamin Hawes (soap manufacturer), Dr. J. H. Hawkins (Benthamite), Rowland Hill (Benthamite), Matthew Hill (Benthamite), William Hutt, John Melville, Samuel Mills, Sir William Molesworth (Benthamite), Jacob Montefiore (banker link to Rothschilds), George Ward Norman, Richard Norman, Joseph Parkes, Thomas Pottinger (former India business in India), J. A. Roebuck, G. Poulett Scrope (poor law reform, head of a firm of Russia merchants), Nassau William Senior (re poor law reform), Dr. Southwood Smith (Benthamite), Edward Strutt (Benthamite), Henry Warburton (Benthamite), William Woolryche Whitmore (son of London banker and director EICo), John Wilks, Henry George Ward (Benthamite), Daniel Wakefield, Joseph Wilson, John Ashton Yates. Also interested is Joseph Wilson a wealthy family connection of Gouger. George Grote is a Benthamite. Pike, Dissent, p. 97 has interested parties as George Palmer (Whig, anti-Capt Swing moves, and of Palmer, McKillop and Co), John Wright a banker of Henrietta Street, London. See Pike, Dissent, p. 97 for 1835 Colonization Committee, with extra names such as WA McKinnon, Edward Barnard and John Shaw Lefevre of Colonial Office, group has chambers at Adelphi Terrace, see later career of Capt. John Hindmarsh.) Make essay on Stirling, see re the SA Stirlings re dr who marries Sir Wm Ingram, bart. Does he have a dr marry to Thomas Livingstone Sir Bart10 qv? see http - arbuthnot - j.htm- Alan Atkinson on 26-6-198 emails he feels WA gets its original push from landowning Tories centered about Duke of York and Duke of Beaufort, evidence being place names Stirling planted around Perth - test this theory. Cf., cited in Cameron. Fire, D. M. Young, The Colonial Office in the Early Nineteenth Century. London, Longmans, 1961. Cameron, fire, p. 86, re shipping agent Solomon and loss of "Sir Francis Freeling's [shipowner] Marquis of Anglesea [Capt Steward wrecks on Cockburn Sound]", Cameron, fire, p. 44, Stirling has a partner, Matthey, thinking of an investment of £30,000 in WA by 1825 or so. Cameron, Ambition's fire, p. 38, says that a friend of James Mangles, is Major Thomas Moody, former Colonial Office staffer, expert on West Indies and the slave trade, advises how to settle Swan River at no expense to govt. His uncle is retired early from Navy on corruption charges. Cameron, Ambition's Fire, p. 7, the family firms bust in troubles of 1825. Windham Club is where Peel meets Solomon Levey p. 33 in Hasluck, Thomas Peel, p. 3. The ship Lady Nugent is named for wife of founder of The Windham Club. In Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 21ff, re WA, T. P. MacQueen (who soon loses interest), Sir Francis Vincent and Edward Schenley of the Windham Club of London have idea to settle WA, free land. In Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 19ff. By late 1820s, there is an Australian Company of Edinburgh, by 1822, managed by Robert Brown of Leith, and it has agents and warehouses in Sydney and Hobart and nearly 2000 tons of shipping, He has brothers John and Walter; cf Marnie Bassett in book on Hentys of WA and Melbourne. Much there also on Ellen Mangles matters, and Buckles. He had a grant of 100,000 acres. He was in command of ship Success when it first arrived in WA in 1827. he went then to England and was apptd gov of the colony, returning on Parmelia of 1 Jun 1829. His own ADB entry, which indicates there is an MA thesis by Boyce. He resigned on October 1837 but did not relinquish duty till Feb 1839 when he left on ship Champion, returning to navy. See Barker's chronology, Stirling is replaced as Gov of WA on Jan 3, 1839 by John Hutt. See Broeze on Brooks re his marriage to Ellen Mangles. After his taking of WA, politicians in England trembled at a cost of a new acquisition. Stirling had contacts, investors and speculators, unnamed, and explored various ideas for a new colony (like Georgia, like the AACo?), but he never wanted convicts at WA. Sir George Murray is a friend of the Stirling family who took up the idea. His friend Horace Twiss also a friend of Stirlings. Stirling arrived in WA on storeship Parmelia, owner not named (Somes? see my lists). By 1837 there was the whining of frustrated speculators. in 1833 a Mangles-inspired effort to settle Anglo-Indians near Albany on the south coast foundered when the first vessel was lost in 1833 with all hands, ship unnamed. He has a nephew Andrew Stirling who died in 1844, looking after his colonial affairs, not so successfully. By July 1851, Stirling was a rear-admiral. his youngest son is Walter, killed in Indian Mutiny. Cf., P. J. Boyce, The Role of the governor in WA, 1829-1890. MA thesis, Univ WA, 1961. F. K. Crowley, Australia's western third. London. 1960. By 1840-41 arose a West Australian Co. which had a short-lived Wakefieldian settlement about Bunbury. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007. http mysouthernfamily/

James and Ellen had the following children:

  49 M i Aust naval cmmnd Stirling Frederick-100883 was born in 1829 in at sea.

Code-red. ADB entry on his father.
        Frederick married Thompson Helen Deas-135931 daughter of Sir NSW Colonial Secretary Thomson Edward Deas-47112 and Bourke Anna Maria-47113.

No notes.
  50 M ii Stirling Andrew-110091 was born in 1824 in England. He died in 1855.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.
        Andrew married Thompson Helen Cecilia-302944 daughter of Thompson Progenitor-302945 and TNotknown Miss-302946.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.
  51 M iii William Stirling-110092 was born in Feb 1831.
  52 M iv Otherson3 Stirling-110532.
  53 F v Agnes Stirling-110486 was born in Oct 1835 in WA.
+ 54 F vi Stirling Elenor-110992 was born in Sep 1838. She died in 1911.
  55 F vii Stirling Anna Hamilton-72746 was born in 1840. She died in 1899.
        Anna married Grant Alexander William Thorold-303107 son of Grant Progenitor-303108 and GNotknown Miss-303109.
+ 56 F viii Stirling Georgiana Janet-110993 was born in 1845. She died on 11 Apr 1920.
  57 F ix Stirling Miss5-110994.
  58 F x Stirling Mary-110995 was born in 1832.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.
        Mary married Buckley Victor-302947 son of Buckley Progenitor-302948 and BNotknown Miss-302949.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.
  59 M xi Soldier in India Stirling Walter Albert-35474 was born in Feb 1837. He died in 1857 in India,India mutiny.

His father's ADB entry.

26. Mangles Caroline-35470 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1792 in London. She was christened in Jan 1793 in St Botolph,Without Aldgate. She died in 1860.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. Code-red. IGI. Burke's P&B for Onslow. http from stirnet.com. on Onslow. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Caroline married (1) Rev Onslow Arthur-33973 son of MP, Lt-Col Onslow George-40975 and Thorp Jane-35435 on 17 Jun 1815 in St James,Westminster. Arthur was born on 30 Dec 1773. He died in 1851.

http from stirnet.com. on Onslow. He is rector of Crayford, Kent. Burke's P&B for Onslow. IGI.

Arthur and Caroline had the following children:

+ 60 M i Hughes-Onslow Henry John Hughes-90630 was born in 1816. He died in 1870.
  61 M ii Onslow Charles Hamilton-302936 was born in 1818. He died in 1866.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.
        Charles married Douglas Mary-302937 daughter of Douglas Progenitor-302940 and DNotknown Miss-302941.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

Caroline married (2) Burton Thomas Jones-87953 son of Burton Progenitor-114305 and BNotknown Miss-111675 in 1853. Thomas died in 1884.

netsurf here. E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

27. Mangles Hamilla Mary-72851 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1812 in Guildford Surrey.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/ruvignyplus/ for Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal. email of early Aug 2004 from Keven Prestwood - G'day Dan Byrnes. Found your web-book at the library. Fascinating! I'm finding myself a bit out of my depth as an amateur novice historian, researching the Royal Navy lieutenant, William Preston, "on particular service" to the fledgling colony of Western Australia.(in particular, the period from 1829-1832). He married Hamilla Mangles. The Mangles family were well connected with the East India Co.(John Mangles was a director) Preston was closely associated with James Stirling ( became his brother -in-law). A Scot, Stirling used his influence to become leader of the expedition to colonise WA and later to be appointed governor. Also significant was one James McDermott, a shipowner from the East India Co. who sets up trading and transport business only to be drowned(murdered?)in 1833. I'm intrigued by the family associations, wonder about Freemasonary and its role, and am interested in the East India Company's part in the decision to settle WA. Have you come across anything regarding the colonising of WA and the East India Co.? Since I live not far east of Glen Innes, perhaps we can meet one day for a talk. I really could do with the stimulus and a bit of guidance (trying, sigh, to get a book together about, well, adventure and the story of one of our un-sung heroes of colonization). Cheers from the bush! Kevin Prestwood. -- Message Ends Referer: <http://www.danbyrnes.com.au/blackheath/article1.htm> From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Hamilla married Lt RN Preston William-114634 son of Admiral Preston D'Arcy-111401 and Nares Sophia-91932.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/ruvignyplus/ for Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

William and Hamilla had the following children:

  62 F i Preston Ellen Jane-80213.

Is she a connection to Eliz Preston qv who marries John Fulham Turner qv?
        Ellen married McAdam Thomas Stannard-96151 son of McAdam Progenitor-81461 and MNotknown Miss-111400. Thomas was born in 1827. He died in 1906.

http://www.angelfire.com/realm3/ruvignyplus/ for Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal. He is of Blackwater, Co Clare, Ireland.
+ 63 M ii Preston D'Arcy Harrington-126720 was born on 11 Sep 1844.
  64 iii Preston J.-109040 was born in 1848.
  65 F iv Preston Ellen Jane-392548 was born in 1838.

29. NZCo, India merchant, MP, Director EICo Mangles Ross Donnelly-171709 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1801. He was christened on 13 Oct 1801. He died on 16 Aug 1877.

He is of Marylebone. Code-red. Is it even possible that Mangles here and NZ Co had inside knowledge of the system behind convict transportation, since he had married Harriet Newcombe, dr of George Newcombe of the audit office in Whitehall, which after 1829 had audited Shelton's Contracts (?). His dr Katherine only from http on Elliot clan. John Mangles Lowis, Esquire, of Plean, is a son of John Lowis, Esquire, who had been a member of the Supreme Court of India, and died in 1870. His mother was Louisa, daughter of John Fendall, Esquire. Born in 1827, he married in 1854, Ellen, daughter of Ross Donnelly Mangles, Esquire, of Stoke, Surrey; and has, with other issue, John, born in 1855. Mr. Lowis, who was educated at Hayleybury, is in the Bengal Civil Service. Ross is friends with Sir Charles Metcalfe, govt of Canada matter and later corresponded much with E. G. Wakefield. See Bloomfield on Wakefield, p. 263, Is in IGI Internet, christened on 13 Oct 1801 at Hackney, St John, London. Burke's LG for Norman of Bromley Common. See an article on this man in supplement (?) to DNB. Where comes child's odd second name, Malkyn? Stenton on Brit Parlts, p. 259. This man is of 9 Henrietta St., Cavendish Sq., London, and of Woodbridge, Surrey. Also, Athenaeum. He is in Bengal Civil Service, a director of EICo, then a director of the New Zealand Co. A dep-lt of London. A liberal. By 1853 he is an anti-Papist, "determined to resist all aggression upon our national rights by pope or cardinal". First elected for Guildford in 1841. Sat till appointed Member for Council of India in Sept 1858 to 1866. Broeze on Brooks. IGI data available. See note re Mrs Henry Davenport Shakespear qv who is a friend of one unspecified Mr Ross Mangles. Letter to DB of March 1996 from Ian Berryman in WA. Burke's LG for Norman of Bromley Common. In 1841 or so he personally visits Wellington NZ on business. See http on Elliott Clan. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Ross married Per IGI Newcombe Harriet-37404 daughter of Esq of Audit Office Newcombe George-37487 and NNotknown Miss-37488 in 1830. Harriet was born in 1811. She died in 1863.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. IGI suggests her name is Newcombe. Stenton, Brit Parlts, Vol. 1, p. 259.

Ross and Harriet had the following children:

  66 F i Mangles Louisa Malkyn-40896 was born in 1839/1840 in Circa,IGI. She was christened on 6 Jan 1840 in St Marylebone. She died on 28 Dec 1921.

http by Peter Western. Entry first per IGI only. See also a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
        Louisa married Rev Canon of Sheffield Macnaghten Henry Alexander-89276 son of Member Indian Council Macnaghten Elliot Workman-335276 and Law Isabella-421978 on 28 Aug 1873. Henry was born in 1850 in Markham Woodford. He died in 1928.

http by Peter Western. He in PDF on Mangles lineage is son of Elliott MacNaughten and Isabella Law. He is Canon of Sheffield per a genforum item. Other http says he marries Anne Chester. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
  67 F ii wife2 Mangles Emily-37166 died on 15 Dec 1927.

Code-red. Burke's LG for Norman of Bromley Common.
        Emily married Banker Norman Charles Lloyd-19487 son of Dir BofE, AACo investor, timber merchant Norman George Wade-37087 and Stone Sibella-39657. Charles was born in 1833. He died on 17 Feb 1889.

http by Peter Western. He is son2. Burke's P&B for Norman of Bromley Common. He is partner in bank Finlay Hodgson, which was absorbed by Baring Bros., and then a partner in Barings. Clay book, p. 6.
+ 68 F iii Mangles Ellen-127182 was born on 22 Jan 1831.
+ 69 F iv Wife2 Mangles Katherine-143397 was born in 1834. She died in 1912.
+ 70 F v Mangles Mary-302970 was born in 1835.
+ 71 M vi VC, ICS Mangles Ross Lowis-171707 was born in 1833. He died in 1905.
  72 F vii Mangles Ethel Georgina-338872 was born in 1842. She died in 1932.
  73 M viii Mangles William-338873 was born in 1848 in Midx London.
  74 M ix Mangles Charles Edward-338874 was born in 1852. He died in 1884.
  75 M x Mangles Albert Champion-338875 was born in 1836 in India. He died in 1891 in Fitzroy House, Fitzroy Square, Midx London.

From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
        Albert married mother problem Elliot Amy Amelia-158639 daughter of Capt Elliot Amyand Powney Charles-141331 and Alexander Anna Maria-132521. Amy was born in 1845 in India.

30. Mangles Frederick-118699 (James , Robert , William , Progenitor ) was born in 1795. He died in 1868.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. He is Magistrate, merchant trading to India and colonies, dealer in ships stores, contractor to supply bunting. His middle name may be Scott (?). He is Frederick Mangles of Pendell Court, Bletchingley, Surrey. Burke's LG for Elwes of Roxby. He seems to be of the India Office at Whitehall. Named as son in Will of his mother. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.

Frederick married Scott Marianne-71482 daughter of Scott Progenitor-302942 and SNotknown Hannah-302943. Marianne was born in 1811.

E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.

Frederick and Marianne had the following children:

+ 76 F i Mangles Mary Georgina-52575 died on 29 Aug 1914.
  77 M ii Senior Curate, Brighton Mangles Arthur A.-303103 was born in 1835 in Compton, Surrey. He died in 1904.
  78 F iii Mangles Lucy Marian-303104 was born in 1836 in Compton, Surrey. She died in 1902.
  79 M iv Mangles William Waring-303105 was born in 1846 in Compton, Surrey. He died in 1918.
  80 F v Mangles Grace M. H.-303106 was born in 1848.
  81 M vi Of India Office London Mangles Frederick Scott-338870 was born in 1834. He died in 1902.
  82 F vii Mangles Georgina D.-338871 was born in 1840. She died in 1861.

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