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4. Sir, Gov WA Stirling James-77297 (Andrew , Progenitor ) was born in 1791 in Scotland. He was christened in 1840. He died in 1865.
recheck re "vice-regal notes". E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK. In England he has chief carpenter-builder, Henry Trigg. He is son5. Code-Aust. Code-red. on Stirling clan history, see http:// www.clanstirling.org/Main/bios/news.html - The background of James Stirling is not easy to find in Clan Sturling history, but Alfred Stirling's book is useful with the following ... Alfred Stirling, Gang Forward: A Stirling Note-Book. Melbourne, The Hawthorn Press, 1972. The father of a fifth son, James the WA governor was Andrew of Drumpellier, no other information. (here are notes from Andrew - (There is a problem when one William Stirling bankrupts (?). Wife Mangles is only sixteen when she marries Stirling. She offers her own money to help failing Stirling businesses. Hasluck, Thos. Peel, p. 18. She has five sons and six drs. ADB for her husband. See family in Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 11ff. ADB for his son. Alfred Stirling's book on Stirlings, p. 96, says this man has five sons. James of WA is son5.) Information is more acceptable for James' mother Ann, urnamed Stirling, of the Stirlings of Cadder, from the original stock of Cawder Stirlings. Preceding Ann's father had been six-seven generations of Glasgow merchants with this branch of the Stirling family. On of the early merchants was a Provost of Glasgow in 1736, in 1736, John, (1677-1736), whose father remains unknown. This Provost John married Isabella Hunter (1680-1733), daughter of John Hunter. Provost John had a brother Dr William Stirling, and a brother Walter, the father of Capt Walter Stirling RN (died 1786) the father of Ann. And so James's maternal grandfather had died not long before the First Fleet sailed for Botany Bay. It does tend to be recorded, however, that James' mother Ann had a brother Charles, who married Charlotte Grote, daughter of Andreas Grote, He is a contintenal banker who settled in London. On his dr see Alfred Stirlings book on Stirling, p. 96. Andreas Grote had nine children by wife2. Andreas was father of the banker George Grote Snr. (notes for him - Family is of Beckenham in Kent. He is banker from 1766 with George Prescott in bank, Grote, Prescott and Co, of Threadneedle St. He has eleven children, his son George Jnr (the readical) DNB entry. - ends those notes and grandfather of the radical banker, historian and promoter of colonisation to Australia, George Grote (1794-1871). Notes for Grote dies 1871 - (Noted in book on Rowland Hill qv. His wife's DNB entry. His wife is dr of man in Madras Civil Service. His own DNB entry. Born Clay Hill near Beckenham, Kent. He is oldest of eleven children. He is DCL, LLD, author as historian of Greece. Does he live around Bromley? There is a George Grote senior in notes for GW Norman qv. By the early 1830s is linked with Gouger of National Colonisation soc, Pike, Dissent, pp. 64-65.) Now here are notes from GW Norman. (His marriage in Clay p. 6 "brings his children into one of the oldest of English banker families and two of them in partnership in oldest of the Clearing Banks". He is friend and neighbour (at Bromley) of bankers as Hankey, Grote, Jones Loyd (sic), Hay Cameron, Lubbock, Stone, Martin, and later Mark Collett, and one of his own brothers is a partner first in Bouverie's and then in Jones, Loyd and Co. He is an original member of the Political Economy Club, agreed with exploring some of Ricardo's views. He is neighbour of Charles Darwin. He is neighbour and intimate friend of George Grote as in Pike, Dissent, see Clay book p. 4. He is elected to Dir BofE in 1821. He went early to Norway and made friends here. School at Eton. Cf., Sir Henry Clay, Lord Norman, London, Macmillan, 1957., from p. 3 Burke's LG for Lubbock formerly Bonham Carter of Adhurst St Mary. Lecouteur 1825 AACo listings. See, Autobiography of George Wade Norman, Completed September 3, 1857, Kent County Archives Office, Microfilm, U310-F69 [indexed by the writer]. See his upcoming notes from his autobiog, Merchant 23 Earl-street, Blackfriars, by 1815. Kynaston, City of London, p. 29.
He became an EICo director at early age of 27, recommended by Manning the father of the Cardinal Manning, on recommendation of George Grote Snr. He retired early from business. He is son of a timber merchant. See Kynaston, City of London, p. 29, p. 84. AA says he had a long tree for this man, just can't find it. fix backcheck from my post-London jnl notes. See Pemberton, AACo, p. 86 or so. James Macarthur was introduced to this man a director of the Bank of England, and an original director of AACo, by one Thomas Hobbes Scott. this man has two sons bankers. Y. Cassis, on bankers, p. 215. Pemberton thesis, lists of AACo investors.) (here for notes on Gouger re Grote connections His Aust Enyc entry says he is co-founder of SA. See Iseke email re Leckie and Co in India by 1837 or earlier, possible opium traders. aa batch in late 1840s, for SA's external trade and Montefiore, see Pike, Dissent, p. 340. From 1840, see Pike, Dissent, p. 214, the directors of the South Australian
Banking Company were G. F. Angas, George Davenport qv, Henry Kingscote, J. R. Mills, John Pirie, John Rundle, C. Dawson, J. R. Todd, J. H. Leckie, John Wheelton, J. Fussell. Re London Bank, Smith, Payne, Smiths, possible link, who is an SA Co. man Thomas Smith see Pike, Dissent, p. 121. He becomes mentally ill by 1844 and resigned positions re SA. In 1831, Robert forms Robert Gouger and Co to assist poor labourers to Aust and Canada and then an establishment at 148 Leadenhall St for outfits to East India army agents and arranging passages to and from India and the colonies. He has a brother Henry who gives some financial support to Robert's activities. his wife has one child, mother and child die when they arrive at SA. Pike, Dissent, p. 99, he is second youngest in family of eleven children, has a brother in India or in eastern trade, of Huguenot stock, schooled at Nottingham, meets socialist Robert Owen, in 1829 he is attracted by ideas of Swan River colony, hopes to work for T. P. Macqueen, but after meeting Wakefield, decided on WA and convinced Macqueen that Chinese coolies are a good idea for SA. He is a Republican. Is he the one sec of National Colonization Society? His own ADB entry. he once visited Wakefield in Newgate.From Sydney Gazette, 4 December, 1830, List of members of the National Colonization Society meeting at 21 Regent Street London on 18 June, 1830: Chair is RW Horton, In Pike, Dissent, p. 66-67, on 16 Jan 1834, SA promoters and others issue South Australian Church Society, Bishop Blomfield of London is pres and committee includes "such prominent churchmen" as Raikes Currie, Pascoe St Leger Grenfell and John Labouchere. Pike, Dissent, p. 60, once Bacon misuses his govt contacts (gotten rid of by R. W. Hay qv), promoters of National Colonisation Society take new offices at 8 Regent St and issue a prospectus for South Australian Land Company. Torrens then interviewed Hay, ideas like an earlier proposal of August, another prospectus arose in May 1832, the Company has 23 members with 12 of them MPs, and the chairman is W. W. Whitmore. Amazing, Pike, p. 61, officials respond by producing ideas as sent to superintendent of Honduras by Gov of Jamaica in 1775 (ie, the George Moore debacle) for comparison; and this goes for discussion by July 9 to Colonial Office. Pike, Dissent, p. 63, the colonisation promoters say that colonists have amassed 200,000 or more and in disgust would go to Canada. Anthony Bacon still lurked in the background, wanted to be governor of SA, with Gouger as col-sec, get up ship Nereid as ordered by Bacon, with its captain, Capt. Sutherland who would have reward of being harbour master. Bacon began wildly borrowing, failed, went off to become a general in Portugal, and Wakefield went off to France. Wakefield wrote on failures in a book of 1833, England and America, then went to continent with his invalid dr. The Assoc set up rooms at the Adelphi, Whitmore stayed as chairman but did little, treasurer is Grote, and supporters were bankers, merchants, philosophical radicals such as Grote, who is a banker, see Pike, Dissent, pp. 64-65. Pike, Dissent, p. 56, on 13 Feb 1831, the private sec to King Wm IV, Sir Herbert Taylor, who has a friend, Major Anthony Bacon, who after Sturt's discoveries wants to found a Spencer's Gulf colony. Hay at Colonial Office does not like idea. Bacon ends in seeing Gouger, whom he meets in jail with Gouger, King's Bench Prison. Jan 1831 (Pike, Dissent p. 55), there is Robert Gouger and Co. which distributes a pamphlet, idea for a benevolent society to assist pauper children to emigrate. See Pike, Dissent, pp. 52-53. Jan 1829 is when Gouger meets Wakefield, as Gouger is anxious on ideas of settling at Swan River, as Wakefield is in Newgate. Idea to concentrate land settlement instead of being prodigal as with Swan River to date. Gouger is, Pike says, p. 53, "efficient, single-minded" and devoted. Gouger for a publication, Pike p. 53, is put as debtor into Kings Bench prison, where he meets a Capt Dixon who claims to have sailed coasts of Southern Australia. Once out of jail, Gouger distributes his "Letter" to peoople connected by trade or property to NSW and VDL. Similar names in colonisation are found in Douglas Pike, Paradise of Dissent, in forming of South Australian colony. Meeting of National Colonization Society at 21 Regent Street, 18 June, 1830, reported in Sydney Gazette of 4 December 1830. chairman is R. W. Horton, MP seeall given below . Committee to consist of him plus Robert Gouger see qv, secretary, W. S. O'Brien MP, Thomas Potter Macqueen MP, William Smith MP of Smiths Payne Smiths probably, C Buller MP, JC Hobhouse MP, Colonel Talbot MP, T. Kavanagh MP, Rev E. T. Sampson (is he of the Blackheath family?), Colonel Torrens, Rev. J. Styles DD, Rev. F. A. Cox LLD, John Labouchere Esq (possible links to Barings or Hopes and Co), R. H. Innes Esq, Robert Owen (socialist), John William Buckle (convict contractor, trader), J. Stirling (of Swan River?), J. Talbot Esq, H. Elphinstone Esq, William Hutt Esq, Clayton Brown Esq, C. Tennant Esq, Robert Scott Esq. Donations go to banks Smiths Payne and Smiths, Drummonds, Hammersley and Co, Cockburn and Co. Pike in Dissent p. 54 finds also a member is John Sterling, who agrees with Hutt. Pike in Dissent, pp. 84ff, has list of members of National Colonisation Society of 1835 as: (interested are William Alexander Mackinnon, wealthy Tory MP, who has a son in far eastern shipping before founding Imperial British East Africa Co., Capt Wm Gowan with 15 years India service, Richard Norman son of a man in Norway timber and brother of a director of Bank of England, Samuel Mills a retired financier, Richard Heathfield later in railways, George Fife Angas, (qv a Baptist merchant and shipowner). E. Barnard (liberal, and an investor in AACo ), J. E. Bicheno, (son of a Dissenting minister and later colonial secretary in VDL) (sic), C. Holte, (eccentric banker Henry Drummond is involved) Bracebridge, Clayton Brown, John William Buckle (qv and an exception amongst mostly philanthropists, uncle of the historian Buckle, AACo investor and SA promoter), Charles Buller, Sir Francis Burdett (dilettante radical), Rev F. A. Cox, Howard Elphinstone, John Gibson, John Gore, Hon Sec Robert Gouger, Arthur Gregory, Woronzow Grieg, Richard Heathfield, Sir John Hobhouse (dilettante radical), R. W. Horton, Erksine Humprheys, John Hutt, William Hutt, R. H. Innes, Edward King, T. Kavanagh, John Labouchere, Thomas Potter Macqueen (AACo investor and SA promoter), Lawrence Marshall, Charles Merivale, John Stuart Mill, Lucius O'Brien, William Smith O'Brien, Sir Henry Parnell, R. S. Rintoul, Rev G. V. Sampson, Robert Scott, John Abel Smith, James Spedding, John Sterling, Rev Dr Styles, Sir Philip Sydney, Colonel Talbot, Charles Tennant, Charles Tennyson, J. H. Thomas, Colonel Torrens (on life of Torrens see Pike, Dissent, pp. 92ff, FRS, he is capitalist with England as workshop of the world, see his son in SA), E. S. Tucker, R. Trench, Hyde Villiers, John Young. A non-MP member is Edward King (later Visc Kingsborough and an antiquarian who recommended Mexico be colonised by Israelites), T. Kavanagh (an Irishman who with Wm Smith O'Brien spent years exploring Egypt), R. S. Rintoul (editor of The Spectator). Members not on the committee included John Simeon Hare (classics scholar), James Spedding, Charles Merivale, Visc Howick, Charles Tennyson, William Hutt (fresh from Cambridge and later MP, friends of colliery owners by wife's connections and has his own shipping interests) and John Hutt, Charles Buller, John Sterling (he is for the Spanish patriots then in London), Charles Tennant, Stephen Spring Rice, W. S. O'Brien, John Romilly, Sir William Molesworth and Edward Strutt. Other SA promoters who were shareholders in AACo were J. W. Buckle, Thomas Potter Macqueen, G. W. Norman (AACo investor and SA promoter), Hyde Villiers, John Smith (banker AACo investor and SA promoter) and John Melville (retired India merchant). Pike, Dissent, p. 87 has 1832 list of members of South Australian Association, as: Major Aubrey Beauclerk (Benthamite), Rev Abraham Borradaile (reformer Anglican clergyman, assists poor, finally suicides in Thames with brothers as merchants at Cape Good Hope and London, members the wealthy Borradaile clan), Charles Buller (born in India in 1806, Benthamite), J. L. Childers (liberal whig, reforming land owner and financier), William Clay (wealthy Port of London merchant), Raikes Currie (radical, banker, gambler), Capt William Gowan, George Grote, Benjamin Hawes (soap manufacturer), Dr. J. H. Hawkins (Benthamite), Rowland Hill (Benthamite), Matthew Hill (Benthamite), William Hutt, John Melville, Samuel Mills, Sir William Molesworth (Benthamite), Jacob Montefiore (banker link to Rothschilds), George Ward Norman, Richard Norman, Joseph Parkes, Thomas Pottinger (former India business in India), J. A. Roebuck, G. Poulett Scrope (poor law reform, head of a firm of Russia merchants), Nassau William Senior (re poor law reform), Dr. Southwood Smith (Benthamite), Edward Strutt (Benthamite), Henry Warburton (Benthamite), William Woolryche Whitmore (son of London banker and director EICo), John Wilks, Henry George Ward (Benthamite), Daniel Wakefield, Joseph Wilson, John Ashton Yates. Also interested is Joseph Wilson a wealthy family connection of Gouger. George Grote is a Benthamite. Pike, Dissent, p. 97 has interested parties as George Palmer (Whig, anti-Capt Swing moves, and of Palmer, McKillop and Co), John Wright a banker of Henrietta Street, London. See Pike, Dissent, p. 97 for 1835 Colonization Committee, with extra names such as WA McKinnon, Edward Barnard and John Shaw Lefevre of Colonial Office, group has chambers at Adelphi Terrace, see later career of Capt. John Hindmarsh.) Make essay on Stirling, see re the SA Stirlings re dr who marries Sir Wm Ingram, bart. Does he have a dr marry to Thomas Livingstone Sir Bart10 qv? see http - arbuthnot - j.htm- Alan Atkinson on 26-6-198 emails he feels WA gets its original push from landowning Tories centered about Duke of York and Duke of Beaufort, evidence being place names Stirling planted around Perth - test this theory. Cf., cited in Cameron. Fire, D. M. Young, The Colonial Office in the Early Nineteenth Century. London, Longmans, 1961. Cameron, fire, p. 86, re shipping agent Solomon and loss of "Sir Francis Freeling's [shipowner] Marquis of Anglesea [Capt Steward wrecks on Cockburn Sound]", Cameron, fire, p. 44, Stirling has a partner, Matthey, thinking of an investment of £30,000 in WA by 1825 or so. Cameron, Ambition's fire, p. 38, says that a friend of James Mangles, is Major Thomas Moody, former Colonial Office staffer, expert on West Indies and the slave trade, advises how to settle Swan River at no expense to govt. His uncle is retired early from Navy on corruption charges. Cameron, Ambition's Fire, p. 7, the family firms bust in troubles of 1825. Windham Club is where Peel meets Solomon Levey p. 33 in Hasluck, Thomas Peel, p. 3. The ship Lady Nugent is named for wife of founder of The Windham Club. In Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 21ff, re WA, T. P. MacQueen (who soon loses interest), Sir Francis Vincent and Edward Schenley of the Windham Club of London have idea to settle WA, free land. In Hasluck, Thos Peel, pp. 19ff. By late 1820s, there is an Australian Company of Edinburgh, by 1822, managed by Robert Brown of Leith, and it has agents and warehouses in Sydney and Hobart and nearly 2000 tons of shipping, He has brothers John and Walter; cf Marnie Bassett in book on Hentys of WA and Melbourne. Much there also on Ellen Mangles matters, and Buckles. He had a grant of 100,000 acres. He was in command of ship Success when it first arrived in WA in 1827. he went then to England and was apptd gov of the colony, returning on Parmelia of 1 Jun 1829. His own ADB entry, which indicates there is an MA thesis by Boyce. He resigned on October 1837 but did not relinquish duty till Feb 1839 when he left on ship Champion, returning to navy. See Barker's chronology, Stirling is replaced as Gov of WA on Jan 3, 1839 by John Hutt. See Broeze on Brooks re his marriage to Ellen Mangles. After his taking of WA, politicians in England trembled at a cost of a new acquisition. Stirling had contacts, investors and speculators, unnamed, and explored various ideas for a new colony (like Georgia, like the AACo?), but he never wanted convicts at WA. Sir George Murray is a friend of the Stirling family who took up the idea. His friend Horace Twiss also a friend of Stirlings. Stirling arrived in WA on storeship Parmelia, owner not named (Somes? see my lists). By 1837 there was the whining of frustrated speculators. in 1833 a Mangles-inspired effort to settle Anglo-Indians near Albany on the south coast foundered when the first vessel was lost in 1833 with all hands, ship unnamed. He has a nephew Andrew Stirling who died in 1844, looking after his colonial affairs, not so successfully. By July 1851, Stirling was a rear-admiral. his youngest son is Walter, killed in Indian Mutiny. Cf., P. J. Boyce, The Role of the governor in WA, 1829-1890. MA thesis, Univ WA, 1961. F. K. Crowley, Australia's western third. London. 1960. By 1840-41 arose a West Australian Co. which had a short-lived Wakefieldian settlement about Bunbury. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007. http mysouthernfamily/
James married Of Woodbridge, Surrey Mangles Ellen-11843 daughter of MP Guildford, Director EICo of Woodbridge Mangles James-51250 and Hughes Mary-11293 on 3 Sep 1823. Ellen was born in 1807 in Circa. She was christened in 1823. She died in 1874.
http mysouthernfamily/ Code-red. http update. She is dr3. She is only sixteen when she marries Stirling. She offers her own money to help failing Stirling businesses. Hasluck, Thos. Peel, p. 18. She has five sons and six drs. ADB for her husband. From a 14-page PDF with 174 footnotes for IGI/LDS lodgement, dated 27 August 2006, by Marcus Bateman, UK, sighted from 2-6-2007.
James and Ellen had the following children:
10 M i Aust naval cmmnd Stirling Frederick-100883 was born in 1829 in at sea.
Code-red. ADB entry on his father.Frederick married Thompson Helen Deas-135931 daughter of Sir NSW Colonial Secretary Thomson Edward Deas-47112 and Bourke Anna Maria-47113.
No notes.11 M ii Stirling Andrew-110091 was born in 1824 in England. He died in 1855.
E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.Andrew married Thompson Helen Cecilia-302944 daughter of Thompson Progenitor-302945 and TNotknown Miss-302946.
E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.12 M iii William Stirling-110092 was born in Feb 1831. 13 M iv Otherson3 Stirling-110532. 14 F v Agnes Stirling-110486 was born in Oct 1835 in WA. + 15 F vi Stirling Elenor-110992 was born in Sep 1838. She died in 1911. 16 F vii Stirling Anna Hamilton-72746 was born in 1840. She died in 1899. Anna married Grant Alexander William Thorold-303107 son of Grant Progenitor-303108 and GNotknown Miss-303109. + 17 F viii Stirling Georgiana Janet-110993 was born in 1845. She died on 11 Apr 1920. 18 F ix Stirling Miss5-110994. 19 F x Stirling Mary-110995 was born in 1832.
E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.Mary married Buckley Victor-302947 son of Buckley Progenitor-302948 and BNotknown Miss-302949.
E-mail update August 2006 per Penny Graham, UK.20 M xi Soldier in India Stirling Walter Albert-35474 was born in Feb 1837. He died in 1857 in India,India mutiny.
His father's ADB entry.
7. Stirling John-104302 (Andrew , Progenitor ).
He is of St Andrews in book on Stirlings by Alfred Stirling. Hasluck, Thos Peel, p. 18. See Marnie Bassett's book on Hentys in WA.
John married SNotknown Miss-142430.
No notes.
John and Miss had the following children:
21 M i WA settler Stirling Andrew-137136.
He dies in Western Australia, aged 26, riding accident.
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